Showing posts with label vineyard church australia. Show all posts
Showing posts with label vineyard church australia. Show all posts

Saturday, July 5, 2014

Vineyard meets Emerging Missional Churches

The other day I got sent a link to a web a journal article by Darren Cronshaw who used to have a lot with Forge and Peter Downes, National director of the Australian Vineyard Church: titled 'Vineyard meets Emerging Missional Churches'.

It's good to see an academic paper which is Australian about the Vineyard. It gives a good overview of what the Vineyard is about its values/distinctives. Also a good background to the history of the Australian Vineyard.

The gist of the paper is about how the Emerging Missional Church has interacted with Vineyard Church, and how there has been an emphasis on 'incarnational' instead of 'attractional'.

One example was given that of the Vineyard church in Cabramatta Sydney. I know the Church and the pastor the Greg Trainor the article is a fair summation.

There was certainly a time when the Vineyard church flirted with the Emerging Missional Church, especially Forge. I can remember when Alan Hirsch was invited along to the national conference. There is no doubt that to certain degrees the Emerging Church was on the agenda. Yet I would say there were churches in the Vineyard who where almost hostile to the other extreme all embracing. We were the latter.

The interesting thing is the Vineyard was always known as a Church planting movement. The incarnational approach of EMC I think more than any other thing aligned with church planting DNA of movement. There was a lot of young church plants at that time highly influenced by EMC, I mean young in two ways as in the leaders were in their 30's and they were new or beginning churches. The interesting thing is that at least three of these Churches aren't around any more. Neither is 'Forge' in Victoria or for that matter in Australia (there maybe something happening in Queensland, I'm not sure.) Allan Hirsch who kicked Forge off is living in America and doing well, but the home front has withered. The little endeavours have ceased and the ones that survived just look like any other church. Certainly 'red', the Church specifically planted by Allan just looks like any other church with maybe the demographics a bit younger.

It would be interesting where God leads the Vineyard next in Australia certainly from what I hear the compassion side in a systematic way has dropped off. I wouldn't be surprised if this part of the Vineyard AUS DNA is re-ignited.

 

 

 

Thursday, June 10, 2010

Men Lead, Women Obey?

Some good reading material in 'The Age' today. Barney Zwartz religious editor wrote 'Men Lead Women Obey'. He quoted a few people that I follow::


First person:: Kevin Giles. Probably the best theological proponent of women having equal status in leadership in the Church. His book on Subordination within the Trinity is excellent. He also spoke recently at the Vineyard pastors get together in Melbourne.

Second Person:: Cheryl Catford. One of my lecturers a long time ago. I like what Zwartz used from her

Paradoxically, such churches often have glamorous women in the pulpit while at the same time teaching that women must be subordinate...
I also like to see what Mark Driscolle is getting up to. He sort of represent the ultimate in muscle testosterone male. Zwartz quoted one of his well know quotes

'real men avoid the church because it projects a hippie queer Christ, whereas me want the "Ultimate fighting Jesus" '

By the way I don't agree with the above quote. Historically males have always been under represented in Church. I'm sure there is a much more complicated answer to this.

Personally I'm a bit over worrying if women should lead. Its an argument that long gone for me. I suspect most people think it strange that we can have equality where a female can lead the country, yet many in the Church are still having the argument about women in leadership.
 To check out the original article have a look here