Showing posts with label kingdom of God. Show all posts
Showing posts with label kingdom of God. Show all posts
Sunday, June 15, 2014
Marcus Borg: Jesus, Uncovering the life Teachings, Relevance of a Religious Revolutionary
I've been slowly reading "Jesus, Uncovering the life Teachings, Relevance of a Religious Revolutionary" and I've been sum what surprised at the strength of Borg's emphasis about the "political-dominance" and how it implicates especially my understanding of the 'Kingdom of God'.
I suppose a crude way of understanding the 'political dominance' may be the Marxist revolution in Russia. The 'Political-dominance would be the equivalent of the ruling class the tzars and the aristocrats vs the peasants.
Jesus foresaw the new Kingdom of one of Justice and Compassion. I suppose that Marx's saw it in terms of some type of economic equality (I'm no expert on Marx so happy to be shown wrong).
Moving on I can see that Jesus 'Kingdom of God' is almost a template or archetype for most revolutions. It would seem to me that historical revolutions attempts at bringing in parts of 'The Kingdom of God', yet they eventually fail.
It makes me wonder even though Jesus spoke of the 'Kingdom of God' here and now. How did he see it running? I don't think he ever envisaged a democracy, communism or any other political system. I don't think it would have been some peace loving type hippy commune either; or maybe he did?
Sunday, August 19, 2012
Vineyard Theology, the here and now

Wimber and his theology of the "Kingdom" was largely attributed to the work done by the theologian "Eldon Ladd". Lately I've been reading Quaker literature; Wimber himself was when he became a Christian a member of the Quaker movement. In America it is evangelical in nature (In Quaker language 'programed', but shares a strong inheritance with the Australian equivalent (Non-programed).
In many ways Quaker theology is very hard to pin down, especially in the 'non-programed' tradition due to the idea that they don't believe in doctrine and the dogma that surrounds it. One of the questions in their FAQ is do Quakers believe in an afterlife. The answer is some what avoided but the reply is somthing like: Quakers would rather have a greater emphesis on what is happening now on earth and our testimonies should be a witness to this. (Testemonies include integrigty. Wimber often spoke on 'Authenticity'!) In other words the 'here and now".
It is also interesting that during a Quaker meeting that 'Waiting' on the Spirit is integral. In the 'non-programed' tradition, that is all that happens. Often an hour of just waiting. Very much like during a Vineyard session of worship waiting during a lull in the music for the Spirit to speak.
So my conclusion is that I think a lot of Wimbers theology came firstly out of a place of practice, through his involvment in the Quaker movement. That he lived the 'Kingdom Theology' prior to finding the 'Eldon ladd' theology which fitted with his practice.
Some Quaker web sites::
Quakers Australia
Quakers England
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Sunday, October 17, 2010
Missional reflections
Much of what he has written I can relate to yet, I've changed. I'm not as feverent for new 'converts'.
I suppose mainly it is about my theology. I am more convinced of the coming and living in the Kingdom of God. Not just the emphasis of 'Signs and Wonders' of the Vineyard which was a large part of my life.
I'd rather use the language of 'making disciples'. That working in the theology of the 'Here and Now' means listening and doing what Jesus would do. It can be pretty simple. Caring for God's earth, looking out for those less fortunate than you, a smile to a stranger. Conversing with someone who is avoided by others. The Vineyard had an emphasis of about 90% on the 'signs and wonders' and a token acknowledgement by the rest. (This is not always the case, Tri Robison's Vineyard church put a huge emphasis on creation care)
I've a good friends who I would call a follower of Jesus yet an atheist; an oxymoron. Yet through him I see God's kingdom advancing. He works on refugee camps giving his time generously, he is environmentally conscientious. Strangely he believes Jesus exists and thinks he is the prime example of how Humans should live.
Yet their are things which Evangelical/fundamentalist tradition doesn't get him over the line. Stuff which is is often (And rightly so) implied in the Bible. Jesus divinity, the atonement etc etc.
I don't care any more, so long as people are advancing the Kingdom. As NT Wright says the 'New earth' is getting closer. (Maybe wrong with this interpretation but that is how I read it.)
The other thing I like about a 'Kingdom' world view is 'mission' happens where we are. Incarnating where we are.
Related articles
- Piracy: Jesus Did It (unreasonablefaith.com)
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Monday, March 22, 2010
here not yet, yet, yet, yet......
The Vineyard Church is heavily defined, especially by those within it to have a 'Kingdom Theology' That the Kingdom of God is here and now, yet not quite here 'yet'. The Vineyards outward example of this is 'Signs and Wonders'. Yet through the emerging theology this definition has been expanded to include a Kingdom of God which helps to redeem the broken, poor, and hungry. I had written about this on the Ranges blog.
Lately Jason Coker has written about this looking at N.T Wright::
I like the term that Wright uses "the redemption of the cosmos according to God's powerful rule" It is holistic, referring to a myriad of things including justice for those in need as well as a environmental bent.
This sort of shift I think will bring about a significant underpinning to the Vineyard.
Coker goes onto write::
I would agree with this, but it is not a theological understanding within Australian Vineyard Churches. In my opinion I'm not sure that the connection with the Kingdom as "the powerful presence of God, the redemption of the cosmos according to God’s powerful rule."is understood. Or even if it is understood takes away from a 10-15 year old understanding of what a Vineyard Church is, and therefore best left alone.
Lately Jason Coker has written about this looking at N.T Wright::
Enter NT Wright. Like Ladd, Wright lent immense academic credibility to Evangelical theology, and much of it has built upon the “inaugurated eschatology” Kingdom motif. This has had a significant impact on Vineyard leaders, who have taken Wright’s work and applied it. Where Ladd understood the Kingdom to be the powerful presence of God, Wright emphasizes the redemption of the cosmos according to God’s powerful rule. Hence, the “now” of the Kingdom means “putting the world to rights.” This re-imagines the “now” in considerably less ethereal terms, often placing it squarely in the realm of political activism.
I like the term that Wright uses "the redemption of the cosmos according to God's powerful rule" It is holistic, referring to a myriad of things including justice for those in need as well as a environmental bent.
This sort of shift I think will bring about a significant underpinning to the Vineyard.
Coker goes onto write::
There is currently a great deal of energy for participating in this kind of “now,” and I’m grateful. It is a noble and Godly work to fight for the abolition of modern day slavery, bring racial reconciliation, etc. However, I can’t help but wonder, what excesses will this lead to? What will be the “Toronto Blessing” of the social justice movements? Does it bother anyone that a shift away from the transcendent immanence of God seems to have resulted in a widespread loss of the apocalyptic intensity that so pervasively characterized Jesus’ own ministry?
I would agree with this, but it is not a theological understanding within Australian Vineyard Churches. In my opinion I'm not sure that the connection with the Kingdom as "the powerful presence of God, the redemption of the cosmos according to God’s powerful rule."is understood. Or even if it is understood takes away from a 10-15 year old understanding of what a Vineyard Church is, and therefore best left alone.
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