Vineyard Theology, the here and now

 

Wimber and his theology of the "Kingdom" was largely attributed to the work done by the theologian "Eldon Ladd". Lately I've been reading Quaker literature; Wimber himself was when he became a Christian a member of the Quaker movement. In America it is evangelical in nature (In Quaker language 'programed', but shares a strong inheritance with the Australian equivalent (Non-programed).

In many ways Quaker theology is very hard to pin down, especially in the 'non-programed' tradition due to the idea that they don't believe in doctrine and the dogma that surrounds it. One of the questions in their FAQ is do Quakers believe in an afterlife. The answer is some what avoided but the reply is somthing like: Quakers would rather have a greater emphesis on what is happening now on earth and our testimonies should be a witness to this. (Testemonies include integrigty. Wimber often spoke on 'Authenticity'!) In other words the 'here and now".

It is also interesting that during a Quaker meeting that 'Waiting' on the Spirit is integral. In the 'non-programed' tradition, that is all that happens. Often an hour of just waiting. Very much like during a Vineyard session of worship waiting during a lull in the music for the Spirit to speak.

So my conclusion is that I think a lot of Wimbers theology came firstly out of a place of practice, through his involvment in the Quaker movement. That he lived the 'Kingdom Theology' prior to finding the 'Eldon ladd' theology which fitted with his practice.

 

Some Quaker web sites::

Quakers Australia

Quakers England

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Mumford and Sons, lyrics and a shared history

Listening to Mumford and Sons has been a reflective time for me. The lyrics and the music get me every-time.

There are a few websites out there that reflect on the lyrics; there seems to be a concensus that the lyrics come from classic liturature, with a constant theme of loss. Be it drugs, alcohol, a love; or somthing Spiritual. It all comes down to the interpretation and background of the listener.

I go for the Spiritual interpretation. For Marcus the lead singer again this is open to interpretation but for him growing up in the Vineyard church, and his parents been the equivelent of 'bishops' in England; we have some overlap. In the some way we were in the same 'The family'.

I suspect been born in California he would have visited and even been a member with his parents at Vineyard churches in the States. He probably went to the big churches in Anaheim and Lancaster. While there sung songs by Kevin Prosch (I see a lot in common with Kevin), Andy Hunter, Cindy Rethmeier. He may have sung in the 'Tongues of angels', raising his hands and putting on the equivalent face.

I suspect that Marcus was in a 'Worship band' growing up. He probably learnt the trade of musician ship, moving a crowd in this environment.

Maybe leaders would have gathered his family together, the likes of John Wimber, Carl Tuttle would have said prophetic words and healing over them.

The lyrics appear to make sense when I reflect on his probable past. His stardom now and the equivalent life.

I suppose I see what has been rejected, I can empathize with it. I can also empathize with the lyrics that there is hope; faith is still there but to find it you need a blank canvas and the real possibility that you will never go back to 'The family'. But in the process you may find something even more real.

 

Looking back...

During my time in the Vineyard I often felt like the denomination had an over reliance on its founder, John Wimber. I can confidently say that the national conferences which I attended would always taken up with a fond reminiscing of the how 'John' would have done things.


I was particularly taken with this quote from Bloomberg business week about advice Tim Cook received from Steve Job in regards to leading Apple

“Among his last advice he had for me, and for all of you, was to never ask what he would do. ‘Just do what's right,'” Cook said. Jobs wanted Apple to avoid the trap that Walt Disney Co. fell into after the death of its iconic founder, Cook said, where “everyone spent all their time thinking and talking about what Walt would do.”

Not that I don't think what John Wimber did things not worth remembering;  Maybe the 'thing that are right' have to revealed, first and foremost. The rest will just fall into place.
Mind you, I think Tim Cook will always be in the shadow of Steve Job. The comparison will be hard for him  to avoid "What would Steve do..."

Todd Hunter, Anglicans: Not for me

For those of you who may or may not know, Tod Hunter who was the National director of the Vineyard denomination. He took the mantel of John Wimber: which he shed pretty quickly. He then headed up the Alpha course in the USA. Now he has taken the Anglican plunge.
There is a pretty informative interview in Christianity today about his move over to Anglicanism, the emergent movement and the Vineyard. Much of the interview got me thinking about my own reflections on Anglicanism.
As a person that has moved from Anglicanism, there are things which I didn't understand when I was growing up about the liturgy. They were really never explained. I really struggled with a man wearing a dress, waving his arms around muttering things. Now probably have more appreciation liturgy and its meaning.
Yet the reason that Anglicanism annoyed me is the heirarcy, the institution. I would say the majorty of Anglicans in Australia actually enjoy it. Especially the ones I know. Yet from my observation it steals away what other christians within the church could be doing. There is an expectation that the minister does it all. Like it or not. It is the default setting, even if the minister in charge wants to change it. For me the wearing of vestments just emphasizes this. It is the reason that I could never go back.
Stangely I have more capacity to participate in liturgy (even out of the anglican prayer book), in our community, than I ever could within the Anglican Church.