The what do we do now question?

The Last question in Brian McLaren's book 'A New Kind of Christianity' is most importantly is "What do we do now?"

This is in many ways the most important question even if you agree with only one of the previous questions. There is then a mandate for you to change.

A few things which had me in agreement or pondering::


Keeping the balance between action and contemplation/reflection, in our life. (Ch 20)


What to do if you agree with 'A new type of Christianity', but your Church is not in this place? Some really good hints here. I like the way he gives good hints at sticking it out. (Ch 21)

Point 5, I particulary like about helping churches change.

::"Get an outside consultant":: Unfortuantely my time in the Vineyard in Australia all consultancy/mentoring was done 'in house', I think you really loose something no going outside the denomination.
::Look at 'parachurch' for an option in a denomination. I never even thought of this. Although I would think that Forge was probably in this bracket until it left Churches of Christ.
::When new people enter a Church embrace what the diversity in what they have to offer from their denomination. They most probably on want to share the things that are positive. Makes scene.


So that's "A New Kind of Christianity' all read and dusted. Would I recommend it to anyone. Nope. Its a book for people who struggles with any of these questions. But if you have it all down pat and happy with the way the world works you will probably on find this book frustrating.

Denominational Distinctivness

An interesting blog from 'Christianity Today'

Amid ongoing debate over the vitality or usefulness of denominations today, CT has observed that many denominational meetings of late have debated the merits of reinforcing denominational distinctives vs. loosening them in favor of focusing on evangelism.

Its an interesting. When at the Vineyard I could see this, a lot of discussion on values/distinctiveness. In the end the values and distinctives where pretty broad. Yet I wouldn't say that the Churches reflected this.  Most really pushed the 'Ministry' stuff. Only one or two where really different.
I can understand to how a missional focus can deteriorate what is or was a denominational distinctive. Makes sense.

McLaren, on Signs and Wonders.

Brian has a question and section answer on his blog, which at time can be quite insightful. A Vineyard Church planter who is currently studying asked the question::

With the emerging churches emphases on the life and ministry of Jesus (which I wholeheartedly agree with), do they pray for the sick and see folks healed? Cast out demons? Or receive words of knowledge? (Words of knowledge being defined as knowing something about someone that is humanly impossible – similar to how Jesus knew that the Samaritan Women had five husbands in John 4)....

McLaren's response is quite insightful and for me a bit of a pointer especially in regards to my own reading!

1. Of course Christians of all types - including those in emerging churches - pray for the sick and exercise spiritual gifts. Do they see folks healed? I'm sure there are many positive testimonies to this effect. But in my experience in emerging churches, the ratio of prayers made to dramatic healings received is not high. This is equally true in the charismatic, Pentecostal, Vineyard, and related churches I've been involved with. I've never seen a church where the "batting average" on healings is high, although I've seen churches that claimed it was high. In "emerging churches" (a category I don't like to use), I think people would try to be honest about the unanswered prayers for healing and I think they'd be careful not to exaggerate the frequency of dramatic answers to prayers for healing.
2. On the demonic, I think there would be a variety of belief and practice, just as there is across the Christian community at large. Speaking personally, the writer who has stimulated my thinking most on this subject is Walter Wink. I highly recommend his book "The Powers that Be."
3. One of the shifts that I think is widely seen in emerging churches is the shift from the modernist natural-supernatural dichotomy. I've written about this in a few of my books, especially The Story We Find Ourselves In. I think a lot of 20th century Pentecostalism was an attempt to redress an imbalance within this dualistic paradigm, while remaining within it. The challenge many of us face is to practice a life in the Spirit beyond that dualism, where the Spirit is inherent to what we used to call "natural," and not simply relegated to a separate supernatural category. (I think of the Spirit of God hovering over the primal waters in Genesis 1 ... ) In other words, in God's universe, everything is supernatural, upheld by God's grace.

 A couple of things resonate.
::I would agree with the "Average batting", statement. I'd also add I've also seen the healing with Non-Christians!
::I liked his last line "In other words, in God's universe, everything is supernatural, upheld by God's grace."
::I think the whole "expectation" of healing with a crowd is not quite right. Its been shown many times that like minded people who have an exception for the 'supernatural' to happen it will happen. Even if it didn't. Just look at the Clairvoyant television shows.  I have a greater conviction of these things outside of the church for been genuine.

Men Lead, Women Obey?

Some good reading material in 'The Age' today. Barney Zwartz religious editor wrote 'Men Lead Women Obey'. He quoted a few people that I follow::


First person:: Kevin Giles. Probably the best theological proponent of women having equal status in leadership in the Church. His book on Subordination within the Trinity is excellent. He also spoke recently at the Vineyard pastors get together in Melbourne.

Second Person:: Cheryl Catford. One of my lecturers a long time ago. I like what Zwartz used from her

Paradoxically, such churches often have glamorous women in the pulpit while at the same time teaching that women must be subordinate...

I also like to see what Mark Driscolle is getting up to. He sort of represent the ultimate in muscle testosterone male. Zwartz quoted one of his well know quotes

'real men avoid the church because it projects a hippie queer Christ, whereas me want the "Ultimate fighting Jesus" '

By the way I don't agree with the above quote. Historically males have always been under represented in Church. I'm sure there is a much more complicated answer to this.

Personally I'm a bit over worrying if women should lead. Its an argument that long gone for me. I suspect most people think it strange that we can have equality where a female can lead the country, yet many in the Church are still having the argument about women in leadership.

 To check out the original article have a look here

miracles

David Hayward, who used to blog under "The Naked Pastor", has once again put up a thought provoking post. "I've never seen a miracle". The basic premise that there are plenty of miracles around us, a sun rise, reconcilliation forgivness etc. Yet the type we hear in charismatic or penticostal churches are non existent. Its a big statement to make by David, pastoring a Vineyard Church (I think) which was built on "Signs and Wonders"

But I have to come out of the closet and admit that I’ve never seen a “miracle”, like someone’s sight restored, or a limb replaced, or cancer cured, or the lame walk, or someone brought back to life (I’ll have to tell you the story some time of a guy who tried to get me to sneak into the back room of a funeral home just before the funeral was about to begin to pry open the coffin and raise the man from the dead. I weaseled my way out of that one!). Not that I don’t pray for these things to happen. And I will continue to do so. I am human and in times of great love or fear I cry out for any help at all. But I have never seen it happen.

I pretty much agree. I give a sigh of relief. That when people claim them in church settings there is a "mob" mentality to it. Where the group/congregation talks themselves into it.

Yet I don't discount miricles all together. Strangly my experience of miricles have been more dramatic outide of the church than within it. When I did my stint at palliative nursing there where a couple of amazing times of when people would be discharged from our books. Alive, and not Christians. (Oh no not the thought the devil can heal as well).

Messages from NT Wright

Stewart Wesly from Network Vineyard has put up two links to NT Wrights messages. I havn't heard them yet, but plan to soon....

Take some time for a view of the Kingdom of God that may surprise and encourage you…
Resurection and the Future World
http://resources.coths.org/sermons2007/20070317_lecture1.mp3
Resurection and the Task of the Church
http://resources.coths.org/sermons2007/20070317_lecture2.mp3
(Just copy and paste the web address into your browser)