Oral tradition

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There have been lots of interesting stories in Paul Kelly's 'How to make gravy' The book resolves around his songs and often how they came about. I found this quote paragraph interesting especially when you examine the biblical 'oral' tradition.

A couple of weeks later we arrived in Washington, just before Christmas. I went to a bookshop, found a copy of What We Talk About When We Talk About Love and thumbed through it to find 'So Much Water so Close to Home'. I was keen to compare it to my song, expecting to have remembered the story imperfectly and made up some of my own stuff. But I was surprised to read that the details in each were exactly the same - the men, the mountains, the whisky, the cold river, the body - right down to the story being told from the point of view of the wife of one of the men.

Its intereting that Paul Kelly read the book a number of years prior to writing the song. yet as you can read the details were uncannily similar.  This got me thinking about oral tradition which a lot of the old testement was based on as well as the gospels. Which where decades after the actual events.
Memory is an interesting thing. There are some things I recall well,  other which needs prompting and some which I'm sure is lost for ever. I think it is one of the 'mysteries' with the Gospels, the gap between the events occurred and the documentation of what happened. Then adding the 'iconic' status of Jesus which had happened in that gap. Will we ever know....

Transgender and Christianity

My good friend over at Un-sync-able Scott/Ellie has posted some more thoughts on being transgendered and Christianity. I found it amazing his wife's Lisa's perspective.

AND FINALLY SOME THOUGHTS FROM LISA AND WHAT IT'S LIKE BEING MARRIED TO A TG:
Hi from Lisa, Ellie Whites wife. Just want to let people know having married this beautiful person as a man 18 years ago and then only 6 years ago discovering why s/he had felt so out of place in this world all of hir (his/her in tg terms) life. There was heartache stress and trauma for me yes but after a lot of self soul searching realized that s/he was still the same person that I had spent my adult life with and had 4 beautiful children with. I now realise that just because he looks like a man (although not for very much longer) he really does think, act and feel like a woman. {More so than me sometimes} God did not make a mistake, s/he is the most caring, giving, loving 'wife' and parent anyone could wish for. I see the hourly struggle, anxiety, pain and suffering s/he goes through in just trying to survive in hir own misfitted body and the rejection, isolation and misunderstanding s/he faces from many others.

And it is true the suicide rate is far too high in this group of beautiful but too often unacceptable people. Ellie has been so close on a few occassions and that is difficult for me to deal with. S/he has felt so much guilt about what myself and hir kids suffer that I have been close to it at times too. Because I then feel guilt cos I don't feel I am being as supportive loving or accepting as I could be. We absolutely love each other but it doesn't mean we don't struggle with it constantly. This is not a 'normal' situation and no-one really understands so please anyone out there who calls themselves a christian and loves Jesus, remember every second of every day that in this society #particularly christian circles# we struggle with peoples uneducated fundamental views and that hurts us to the core. All we ask is to be shown grace, love and understanding.

I can't believe how brave she is. Their journey has been incredibly tough. I'm so glad they are sharing it so that at least for me I can understand some of there pain.
The other thing that I conclude reading their story is that Jesus would be among them, sharing their pain. Not judging weighing up wrong and right. Just being with them.
I've concluded that people do not choose this path, it is one of to much pain. Yet it is fate which these guys have been given; I can only support them and try my best as I think Jesus would do.

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John Domonic Crosson in Australia

Just got to listen with the interview with John Domonic Crosson and John Cleary.

Here is the blurb on the ABC web site::

Irish-American Catholic priest John Dominic Crossin is a Biblical scholar. A member of the Servite order, he has specialised in investigating the historical Jesus - including examination and comparison of both canonical and apocryphal scriptures. His understanding of the life of Jesus as a Mediterannean peasant helped renew interest in the historical Jesus and shape the scholarly group known as the Jesus Seminar.

I'm pretty interested in Crosson's scholarship. I think the search for the 'Historical Jesus' should be an ongoing search for all Christians or even those are interested about Christianity.

Some interesting thoughts on what we 'actually know about Jesus.'

You can hear the interview here

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The Gospel blur...

I always took for granted that the authors of the Gospels wrote slightly different accounts of the stories of Jesus because  as human they see and interpret things differently. I still believe this yet there are other issues which need to be taken into account. Such as the time between the event happening and the text actually written.

This was brought home to me when reading  "von Braun, dreamer of space engineer of war" by Michael Neufeld.

In the biography he cowrote long after von Braun's death, Stuhlinger claims that von Braun went to an SS guard in the Mittelwek to criticise the mistreatment and crudely threatened with being put in a striped uniform too; later von Braun allegedly went to a higher SS officer and complained that the prisoners' bad health conditions contributed to poor workmanship in manufacturing. The problem is that Stuhlinger attributes an identical encounter with a guard to Auther Rudolph, whose Nazi enthusiasm is in little doubt, and both von Braun stories are told decades after the fact solely from memory of conversations with him, and in the context of defending him against charges of complicity in the horrors of Dora. As historical evidence, these uncorroborated, second hand anecdotes are highly dubious, although they cannot be ruled out as impossible. (p163) 

 What I think is interesting is the compared to the Gospels how time can change how people view events. For example the earliest Gospel Mark from the wikipedia ::

Most critical scholars believe that Mark was written around or shortly after the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Second Temple in year 70.^[31][32][33]

70 years is a lot of time to blur what actually happened. It is the equivalent of myself writing  about the second world war. The above example of von Braun you can see how flakey these accounts are writen 30 years after the events.

So what does this mean? Well I think the gospel stories are true; but it means the quest for the historical Jesus is more difficult.

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Why go down a liberal track?

I have decided that there are aspects in my faith that I call 'schizophrenic'. There are times I can affirm an evangelical theologians and other times I can affirm liberal theologians. While strangely I don't feel as if my faith waivers, only maybe the 'literal' aspect of the stories but that is about it.

I've writen this before but I really afirm Jesus two commandments. Mathew 22:36-39

 ³⁶"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" ³⁷Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'^{[b] 38}This is the first and greatest commandment. ³⁹And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'^[c]

Having a liberal persuasion you can affirm both these two commandments with more freedom.
For me their is an intellectual aspect which affirms the searching deeper for God, even if this takes you to place which questions aspects of your belief and values. This is seen in the first command.
The second command makes it easier to love the gay couple that moved in next door.
The evangelical, fundamental position has clauses with Jesus Great commandment usually associated with objections from the Old Testament and Paul.  These clauses usually doesn't account for culture, time, place or a Christological position (Eg Jesus didn't comment).

For me Churches which accept the  liberal position, there is a wide breadth of position in which I can have my schizophrenic positions yet still feel safe. Its homely position.

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The Historial Jesus

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Some thoughts from "The meaning of Jesus, two visions" by Marcus Borg and NT Wright.

One of the key points of difference between liberal and evangelical scholars is what you can take as 'literal'. There are, like most things degrees or even aspects in which the Bible and related stories can be taken as literal.

Marcus Borg makes the point that we really don't know a lot about Jesus. What we do know of him comes from writing that occurs decades after his death. That the writing where done by his followers after his death. Where in their writing crept connections with the Telmuld and other Jewish literatuere. That during the passing on orally of the stories for decades  the legend of Jesus increases by his followers. You can see this progression chronologically with Mark and the Gospels of Mathew and Luke then John.

For me it makes seems to make scene, I can actually see what he is talking about. Chinese whispers

The other option put forward by NT Wright is that the oral tradition is incredibly accurate. That the gap between Jesus death and the writing of the Gospels is nothing to worry about. Especially in a Jewish context.

Once a story has taken hold of people's minds and imaginations, it is told again and again with minimal alteration.

For me either position can be ok, ultimately a story does not need to be literal for it to contain truth! Even fundamentalists use illustration in their preaching with stories and illustrations (not in the Bible) which may not be literal but bring out the truth of the Bible.
 
Just to let you know I've done a review of the book which can be found on hubpages here.

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