Scottish Catholic Cardinal and the hypocrisy of it all

 

Cardinal O'Brien of the Catholic Church in Scotland recently admitted to inappropriate sexual activities. He was well known for vilification of homosexuals calling them a 'grotesque subversion'.

It doesn't surprise me. I once attended a Church in the early '90's where a guy I was speaking to went off on a rant about homosexuals. I sort of listened but didn't add anything. This again happened a few months latter. This time I pulled him up and said I didn't agree. It was much latter I discovered that he had had previous homosexual relationships.

I came away always to be wary of those who are bigots regarding same sex relationships. They are often the ones who have a personal issues with their sexuality. Much like Cardinal O'Brien.

I feel sorry for any Catholic priest. Chastity is basically unnatural. Its fighting what is deeply ingrained within the majority of all people: our sexuality. It is major part of what makes us human.

I fear more and more of these scandals will continue.

 

Jo Hockey, same sex marriage and cooking

 

I've become a bit of a fan of kitchen cabinet, an ABC show hosted by Annabel Crab. It is where Australian politicians cook up a dish and share it with Annabel and chat about life and politics. It is at times insightful.

The episode with Jo Hockey was one such episode. Not because of his cooking. I couldn't believe that he didn't know how to get the heart out of a lettuce... Rather his views on same sex marriage. I have previously written about his tortured response to this on Q and A. He padded this out more on kitchen Cabinet. His position which has firmed was due to having children.

I have to admit that I have also rethought my position since children. For children mine anyway, it seems that everything must have a mummy or a daddy. If they see a sheep in the field they ask : "where's the Daddy?" or "the Mummy?". It's a repetitive question down to snails, frogs, birds etc. Simply for them it seems to be the way things should be.

If life wasn't complicated, messy, I would agree with children and Jo Hockey. The clincher for me is friends who are different. The majority never wanted to be gay or transgendered. Most have really battled, been picked on, ostracised, a real struggling minority. I'm not sure legislating against them is right, even if it isn't the preferred way of things.

 

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Reading a bit more critically...

One of the things that I often reflect on is how I read and listen differently to how I would have 20 years ago. I was in many ways forced to look at things critically with tertiary education

I've been reading Mark Connors series on relationships and specifically his thoughts on homosexuality.

Once upon a time I would have just swallowed it. No questions asked.

Now I'd want to know: Who is Mark Connors? Would he be writing from a certain bent? The answer is easily googled. Pentecostal, largest church in Melbourne. Just from this information, I've worked out the angle of the article, usually I wouldn't even need to read on. (I like Mark Connors I'm not sure I agree with his outworking of the meta-narrative of scripture but I like how he is on the side of the wretched and poor)

There are questions which I think the secular world is waiting for an answer from evangelical pentecostal churches. The most important is when a homosexual couple is in a loving monogomous relationship? I think that most of the verses Mark mentions is in context of a lustful homsexual incounters.

The other questions which I would be asking are there others historically and contempory which have contrary views?

Of cource there are::

A great piece by baptist minister in Collins Street Simon Cary Holt, supporting homosexual marriage.

The ancient Church there are examples of Homosexual marriage: From the wikipedia::

Historian John Boswell claimed the 4th century Christian martyrs Saint Sergius and Saint Bacchus were united in the ritual of adelphopoiesis, which he calls an early form of religious same-sex marriage

A cure for homosexuality; a reading of an article by Jerray Marks is perfound and worth reading.

So like most things now I read differntly, with a critical eye; sometimes I swing one side or another but usualy If I don't have much inverstment I sit on the fence. But others where I think there is an issue of equality and Gods overall plan, then I'll look at things a bit more critically.

One of the biggest challenges for me as a Christian who once held Mark Connors view, was really knowing and understanding Homosexuals. I would think that the majority of large Church pastors in Melbourne would not have a homosexual friend that they have walked next to in friendship for over 10 years. Known there ups and downs; The desperate measures they get to.

It gives there didactic writings and orations no credibility.

I was pleased to read from Mark that "Anti-Gay is not an option" phew, some have moved on, even if slowly.

 

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Gippsland Anglican bishops response to same sex couples...

Gipsland Times had an interesting article about the Gippsland Bishop John McIntyre regarding members of the anglican Church who are gay::

"In my president’s address last year I indicated my commitment to be inclusive and welcoming of same-sex attracted people in our diocese, “confident that God is at work in and through all those who are open to the call of God in their lives and wanting to offer ministry in the life of our churches”.

"I reiterate that commitment to you now. It comes from a long personal journey of life experience; reflection on Scripture in the context of that experience, and reflection on that experience in the light of Scripture.

"It is a simple Biblical truth that has caused me to move to a new place in my understanding of the place of same-sex attracted people in the life of the church. That truth is revealed in the words of Jesus, who says in the Sermon on the Mount, “a bad tree cannot bear good fruit” and “by their fruit you will know them” (Matthew 7.18,20). I have come to know and acknowledge that the fruit of their works makes clear that God has been and is at work in and through gay and lesbian people, who for years have been a part of our church, in both lay and ordained ministries.

It interesting that he has used the words of "inclusive" and "welcoming" of same-sex couples in his diocese. I wonder if this is just the begining of the cracks that are starting to appear in main stream churches?

I also wonder if he would have been brave enough to to have used the words "my commitment to be incluse welcoming and blessing of same-sex attracted people"? It is one thing to be inclusive it is another to support a same sex orientation.



 

Same sex parenting and qanda.

Much is been made of the 'heart felt response' by Penny Wong and Joe Hockeys reply to the last question of same sex parenting on qanda on the ABC last night.

I sort of felt sorry for Joe Hockey. He sort of sounded honest but I'm not sure he had his heart in it. His response just reminded me someone who was towing the party line for the sake of the team. The Prime Minister is in the same situation, except she probably is in the minority for her party.

I'm pretty sure that if a conscious vote was given to the coalition on marriage equality, and put to the parliament it would get up.

 

You can watch the program here

Baptists coming out

Simon Holt who is a minister at Collins Street Baptist has come out in support of gay equality in marriage. He has also spoken up in defence of some of his colleagues who are in the minority on this view. Its brave supporting marriage equality and coming out.

My opinion is that it is just a matter of time before more ministers start been honest. I think that there are a number of baptist ministers who have the same opinion as Simon yet coming out would make there position untenable within there current congregation.

Marriage equality for gays will happen, the younger generation has a much higher tollerance on the issue. As this generation gets stonger within the Church, the issue will crumble. It will happen but when...we are starting to see the time.

Gary Bouma on Marriage equality

Christina's has told me one of most interesting lecturers when studying sociology was Gary Bouma; a social researcher and Anglican minister. He has written his support of marriage equality and a few statistics, which are unsurprising! Wow those pentecostals...

 

In 2007, an Australian Electoral Survey of trends in political opinion found that 43% opposed legal recognition of same-sex marriage, and that 66% of Australians declaring "no religion" favoured same-sex marriage, compared with 39% of Catholics and Anglicans, 44% of Uniting Church and 24% of Presbyterians. Meanwhile, the sustained attack on homosexuality by evangelical and Catholic Christians has resulted in high levels of opposition to marriage equality among Pentecostals and Evangelicals. Catholics, however, have the lowest rate of opposition (60% in 2009) compared with 100% of Pentecostals and 79% of Baptists.

 

Unsettling the ALP, Obama supports gay marriage::

Its fascinating that Obama has revealed his support for gay marriage. The ramifications for socially conservative America will be interesting to watch play out as the elections unfold.

Hot out of the blocks was Julia Gillard, from the left side of the ALP continuing her support for marriage as it stands.

It's interesting; I would have thought that this could have been a politically astute moment. Switch her position. It would take the heat off a number of things such as Slipper and Thompson. It would be a real differentiation between her and Abbott. As opposoed to an issue where the voters have to make up there own mind on who has the better health, ecconomic, social, etc etc policy. Gillard is loosing these battles as it is.

Gillard was to quick, this may have been an opportunity to increase Labors pathetic primary vote; alas I think she will miss the opportunity.

Baptist minister Gone

As reported in 'The Age' yesterday, Baptist minister Matt Glover was secretly dismissed for his support of same sex marriage. Some thoughts-

-Working within an institution such as the Baptist Church is alway going to be a hard gig. I take my hat off to him for been honest. There would be a lot more pastors who would have the same opinion but find it easier to lie or brush off the topic (I actually know some!).

-What did it mean two to four thousand years ago for a man and wife to leave there family and become one? Is it about 'fruitfulness' or a loving relationship? I suspect it is meant to be both. 

Either way I think the idea of equality is by far the higher principle. In some ways I don't think society can escape this. Same sex marriage will happen but not for a long time, it won't go through this parliment.

Maybe a way around the whole issue is having 'Civil marriages' and 'denominational religious marriage', where the denomination has the choice to marry or not to marry same sex couples. 

VCAT verdict :: gay discrimination and the brethern

I've been following this case for a while, from the ABC::

The Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) has upheld a discrimination complaint made by a gay support group against a business run by the Christian Brethren church.

WayOut claimed it was barred from hiring the Christian Youth Camp's Philip Island Adventure Resort in 2007 because of its stance on homosexuality.
The resort has been ordered to pay the group $5,000 in compensation.

Interesting the Brethern used as their big gun Dr Peter Adams from Ridley College to no avail, from The Age::

Judge Hampel rejected the evidence of Christian Youth Camps' expert witness theologian Dr Peter Adam on the basis that "his independence and impartiality in respect of the evidence he gave was seriously compromised".
"He became, in my view, an advocate for the cause for which he had been retained and in which he believed," Judge Hampel said.

For me as a Christian the issues was supporting people with their sexuality. Certainly I would imagine Jesus supporting, and not discriminating any sexuality or culture. It will be interesting how the Brethren promotes its camp sites now...

Related articles

• Legal win for gay suicide support group (news.theage.com.au)

same sex marraige

Image via Wikipedia

Interesting ruling in the US state of Califorina  as posted from the ABC::

Judge Vaughn Walker in San Francisco has ruled that banning gays and lesbians from tying the knot is discriminatory and violates the US constitution.
Only five states and Washington DC currently allow same-sex marriage.
One of the plaintiffs, Jeff Zarrillo, says the United States is supposed to be about equality.
"Well this decision today brings Paul and I and so many others like us closer to that equality too," he said.

I can see Australia going down this path. I'm not really that hassled really. 'Civil Union' and a 'Defacto' relationship has almost the same legal implications as marriage except marriage is for a 'man' and woman'. So really it is just about definition and language. Maybe some implaction down the track are:
:: Marriage is only a 'Christian' or some other religion which becomes more and more irrelevant to the rest of western culture.
::Unknowingly the Culture uses the language of 'marriage' for 'Civil Union' making the older definition of 'man and woman' marriage irrelevant.
:: Western culture including Australia priorities legal issues around equality and anti-discrimination as such, I see marriage between same sex partners as inevitable and probably within my lifetime.

Related articles by Zemanta

• Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage (cnn.com)
• Judge's ruling ready in Calif. Proposition 8 case (salon.com)

Jesus and Sexuality

It was with Elton Johns comments about Jesus which got me thinking about this one. As reported in the Herald Sun.

"I think Jesus was a compassionate, super-intelligent gay man who understood human problems. "On the cross, he forgave the people who crucified him. Jesus wanted us to be loving and forgiving.

Well the truth is we don't know much about Jesus own sexuality. Eltons argument unfortunmately comes from the silence. There is no evidence that he had a sexual relationship with anyone male or female.

I think the closest we get is in Luke 7:38

³⁸And standing behind Him at His feet weeping, she began to wet His feet with [her] tears; and she wiped them with the hair of her head and kissed His feet [affectionately] and anointed them with the ointment (perfume).

I made the brash comment to Christina that this sounded erotic. Where she corrected me and said 'sensual'. As a man I would have found this pretty big turn on. Though it would be interesting if it was also one of Jesus temptations which he resisted. Again an argument from the silence.

I do think that Elton was correct when he said "he understood human problems" Maybe this was why he left without saying anything about the issue of homosexuality...